ME3

[zilabus]

So you're saying that there has been a movie where a rogue alien spectre goes out and attacks colonies, and a human marine gets to become a spectre and take on the spectre? Eventually figuring out there is a bigger force behind him and the fate of the universe is in his hands? Plus in the second one, a group of collectors go across galaxies and abduct whole towns to fuel reapers that will eventually invade Earth and the rest of the universe. In 2183?

I know the meaning of cliche. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to bore you, and myself, to death by going on and flooding you with information, which is traditionally bad form in a debate.

Aliens.

Don't remember the names, but I'm sure you can find corisponding roles if you've seen it.

Human space marines? Check.

Invadin alien antagonist? Check.

Set in future? Check.

Overlying force? Check.

Doom (movie).

Shepard - Reaper?

Underlying cause - genetic experiments

Human space marines? Check.

Invading alien antagonists? Check.

Fate of the world in balance? Check.

Unknown underlying cause? Check.

Eventual reveal of cause? Check.


Starship troopers.

Shepard - Rico.

Unknown force - Brain aliens.

Human space marines? Check.

Attacking alien enemies? Check.

Fate of the world in balance? Check.

Unknown underlying cause of attack? Check.

Eventual reveal of cause? Check.

The list goes on far longer. Again. This isn't to say it's paticularly bad or horrrible because of it's use of plot points that have been done before. But these plot points. Are. In fact. Cliche. The become more trivial then they would be. Because, yes, we've seen space marines many times before. Yes, we can more or less assume that there will be an unknown underlying cause. And yes, of course the fate of the universe is in the balance. I mean, when isn't it?

[x13daYs13niGhts]

Yet these elements in ME has not lost its meaning (for at least in ME).

I'm guessing you haven't played the game. Because if you had, you would see the aliens or any of the other elements and you would:

A. Say this story is gripping and I haven't seen this element been used like this before.

or

B. Oh aliens??? Sooo cliche. Space soldiers??? Laaame.

Seeing as how every reviewer has given this an above 95% rating, A/A+, or above 4.5 on a 5.0 scale, etc. etc., I don't think a lot of people used option B.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

A literary element can lose its original meaning in multiple movies or games but gain it back in another artistic work.

When you see a movie and see aliens, do you immediately say "Seen that before, NEXT"? So obviously someone is throwing the word cliche around too much.

[zilabus]

The last paragraph of my previous post suitably responds to the arguments you've raised.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

That didn't answer anything. So I'm guessing you have not played the game...

Why am I arguing the definition of cliche vs. a story of a game with some people who have not even played that game?

Like I said - The elements you listed, yes cliche. It being cliche being used in ME? no.

[zilabus]

That didn't answer anything. So I'm guessing you have not played the game...

Why am I arguing the definition of cliche vs. a story of a game with some people who have not even played that game?

Like I said - The elements you listed, yes cliche. It being cliche being used in ME? no.

Because I don't agree with you, you assume I haven't played the game? No, I have played Mass effect. I did two (and a half-ish) playthroughs, and I enjoyed being an Engineer most.

The fact you enjoyed the game has nothing to do with whether or not certain elements are cliche. Many are. You can guess how certain things will play out,(avoiding spoilers) and the basic stories of things, because you've seen them happen before. In fact, it's been said that many elements where a homage to cheesy 80's sci-fi.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

So would you agree that saying something is cliche is opinionated?

Did you or did you not feel that the way ME used any of those elements was in a cliche way, to any extent to where it would lose meaning and take you out of immersion?

The whole way this argument started was how some guy who has never played the game (yr), thought the story was cliche.

So obviously the question is (I'll say it again), did the story ever lose its meaning to you because there were aliens, space marines, unknown invading forces, etc. etc.?

[zilabus]

As you so wonderfully explained earlier, cliche means a point overused to the point where it begins to lose meaning, or at least no longer gives quite the effect it would have had you not seen it in the past. Me having called the game cliche throughout this entire discussion will probably lead you to the conclusion that yes, I thought some elements lost at least some of their luster for these reasons.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

Then you do agree saying something is cliche is obviously opinionated...

Well I guess when I go buy a game I look at experienced game reviewers and votes via game review websites. Not to people like you.

I highly doubt you went throughout the game thinking that any of the elements in its story were cliche, but just saying that for the sake of the argument.

[zilabus]

Then you do agree saying something is cliche is obviously opinionated...

Well I guess when I go buy a game I look at experienced game reviewers and votes via game review websites. Not to people like you.

I highly doubt you went throughout the game thinking that any of the elements in its story were cliche, but just saying that for the sake of the argument.

I don't expect you to come to me to reviews. In fact, I would perfer you look to the 'experts' because clearly they're opinions are your own. Don't pretend that I've concieded and agreed that 'cliche is an opinion' because you didn't do so, clearly striking down anybody who dared claim your beloved ME was cliche.


Yes, I realize the fact that people would not agree with you completely on how amazing and flawless that game is is beyond comprehension. I'm sorry game master, I should've known you are the absolute, end-all, be-all of videogame critique.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

You're saying I'm not allowed to 'strike down' on peoples opinions?

Now you're obviously resorting to personal attacks because I have never had said the game was flawless or perfect.

I challenged yalls opinions but do I have a right to my own opinion too?

[x13daYs13niGhts]

You just lost all of the momentum in the whole argument because you wanted to point out that I was being an asshole.

Bravo, arguments over opinions work just fine.

[zilabus]

No, the momentum was lost when you decided to centralize on the fact that I must've been lying about my opinions of the game because they didn't match up with yours.

No, that isn't a personal attack. I was parodying your most recent retorts by presenting them back to you in their most extreme form.

There's nothing more for me to say, because you will clearly assume any opinions I have conflicting yours are fabrications.

Besides, I'm not a reviewer or a voting website. Based on what you said earlier, you should've just avoided your entire crusade against yellowrock, and then the continuation of it when I picked up the torch.

[x13daYs13niGhts]

"Parodying", sure. I'll just say the same thing when I insult somebody. It was obvious you were just plain out being sarcastic and saying that I was being an asshole about how everybody should listen to me.

"There's nothing more for me to say, because you will clearly assume any opinions I have conflicting yours are fabrications."
- That's a fancy way of saying "I give up".

I said I highly doubt you would think the game had some cliches whilst keeping the subject going while you just had a post complaining about my attitude against all people who think there are cliches in ME.

[zilabus]

Yeah, sarcasm and pardoy are similar. And you're correct. Either way, I was, indeed, calling you an asshole. See? It's far more fun when it's not so blunt.

"There's nothing more for me to say, because you will clearly assume any opinions I have conflicting yours are fabrications."
- That's a fancy way of saying "I give up".

Congratulations! You've learned to read! Well, sort of. It's more like. "I give up, because your argument isn't based on anything quanitfyable or legitimate." Too be honest, mine is only slightly better, but at least I could give examples supporting my basic idea.

(See, I could've said, "Yeah, you're right, asshole.", but I find this more enjoyable. It sets an arrogant and condescending tone, and I like to keep that up.)

I said I highly doubt you would think the game had some cliches whilst keeping the subject going while you just had a post complaining about my attitude against all people who think there are cliches in ME.

In all honesty, I can't make heads or tails of this one. I lose it at some point after whilst and while.