love triangles in evangileon

[yellowrock]

oh come on, you know that penguin liked him, it always seemed to be there when he was naked, coincidence? i think not!

[one_armed_scissor]

oh come on, you know that penguin liked him, it always seemed to be there when he was naked, coincidence? i think not!

yeah youre kinda right
but y'kno you
have seemed to have developed
(it might be me)
a sence of i dissapprove what you say
so i try to make fun of it
and hopefully it will go away.....
sry if im wrong.
but i dont apreciate that kinda attitude
but a good joke is fun every now and than
but it does get old fast
but you probably say the same thing for music threads
so forget what i sed ok


and its supposed to be love triangles
not pairs...fyi

[yellowrock]

i can't read the post when you put it like that...

[Squirrel Ninja]

OK heres my initial theory:

The Red Triangle is the Shingi triangle. Even disregarding anyone dieing or fading out of existence, I think Shingi would have ended up with Asuka, there good for each other. Even though Shingi had seemingly no interest in Misato, she might have had a thing for him, and the events of the movie complicated their relationship considerably, switching it from roommate at best or paternal at worst to romantic. I think Shingi liked Rei, he was very interested in her, as I think most people who have seen the show are, but I don't think he was in love with her. I don't believe Rei was incapable of love however, as some have asserted, and I think she did care for Shingi, more than anyone else in her life, not that that says very much. She may have even loved him, she can be very difficult to read, but in End of Eva they did seem to be very close.

Gendo's triangle is in black. I think it's clear that his wife was his one true love, however I don't think his relationships with the Akagis were as cold as Ritsigo would like to believe.

Fuyutsuki, orange, also was clearly infatuated with Gedno's wife even before they met, and if he wouldn't have proposed to her, I think they could have been together, but as it stood, I don't think he would betray Gendo's trust; weither this is out of loyalty or shyness is debatable, I would say it's a combination but mostly the latter.

The Green, Toji and Hikari is pretty self explanatory and obvious.
The purple is Kaji's triangle and it's purple for a reason, he's a pimp. I think he loved Misato more than the others, but he certainty wasn't shy about flirting with anything with two X chromosomes. I think he was like Misato, it was his only method of comfortable social interaction.

Lastly, the light blue line is fan-fic worthy fantastical homosexual relationships. I think Shingi and Kaworu had a very loving relationship, one that was very open and heart felt, just not romantic. It's a very ambiguous point, and I'm looking forward to some counter arguments (looking at you William, but my intuition says no.
Discuss

[Nirvash]

guess what ninja? gainax agrees i saw it recently on oav it explains all the lovings goin on. you described it almost perfectly except kaworu that one was intended to be real and between rei and auska when shinji was recreating as they called it his eve apeared as rei and not auska. plus auska died in the end.
whats funny is both shinji and gendo both got around didnt they?

[one_armed_scissor]

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIES!

excelent job squirrel ninja!
but lemme "fuel-inject" and explain the relationships a little further.

when misato kissed shinji,
its only because she never really learned how to be
a parent,
and that was the only way of expressing any kind of love for shinji
rei at first didnt know how to love
but then as she lived (and died) she started to learn about love
which is why in EoE,she denied gendo and took his hand and wanted to be with shinji
(but by then she was lilith so it is kinda complicated i kno!)
and yui was gendos true love
which is why he wanted to inbed the adam embryo in rei
so he can be with her again
and the fact that rei and yui are sorta similar
kinda helps this theory
even though gendo was denied to be with her and was
"given his retribution"
toji and hikari is pretty much spot on
it was obvious that they had feelings for each other
and kaji really loved misato out of all
ritsko probably was just really close to him and ibuki
was just unfortunate to be hit on by kaji
shinji and kaworu were really close
kaworu was the only one shinji allowed in "his bubble"
and he was really happy to hear that someone loved him
and he was extremely hurt and distraught when he had to pez-dispense him as the next angel.

was this more helpful anyone?
or was it the same as squirrel ninja said?

[one_armed_scissor]

i can't read the post when you put it like that...

sry its a habit...

[William]

shinji was sexually attracted to rei and Asuka, yet did not love them, the only person Shinji ever loved was kwoaru. That was only because he was the first person that had said I love you to him. The first person to open himself up to Shinji, that is why he loved him.
Rei loved Gendo, Gendo loved Rei as his creation, since it was something he created using his own scientific cloning method, his own dream.
Mistao was obviously in love with kaji, thats self explantory.
I think that Asuka really did love Shinji... Though she had her envy with him, she loved him and respected him, and in a way was trying to prove herself to him...

The philosophical meanings can be answered by the words of Kwaoru when he is in the shower with shinji...yet since I don't remmeber what he said word for word....

It has to do with humankinds need for comfort, to be cared for, it is a need for his psychollogical exsitence as a human, apart of his nature to desire to be cared for to be loved. Yet every man is virtually alone, in the way of his pride, and that this is truly only a strive for himself...

[one_armed_scissor]

shinji was sexually attracted to rei and Asuka, yet did not love them, the only person Shinji ever loved was kwoaru. That was only because he was the first person that had said I love you to him. The first person to open himself up to Shinji, that is why he loved him.
Rei loved Gendo, Gendo loved Rei as his creation, since it was something he created using his own scientific cloning method, his own dream.
Mistao was obviously in love with kaji, thats self explantory.
I think that Asuka really did love Shinji... Though she had her envy with him, she loved him and respected him, and in a way was trying to prove herself to him...

The philosophical meanings can be answered by the words of Kwaoru when he is in the shower with shinji...yet since I don't remmeber what he said word for word....

It has to do with humankinds need for comfort, to be cared for, it is a need for his psychollogical exsitence as a human, apart of his nature to desire to be cared for to be loved. Yet every man is virtually alone, in the way of his pride, and that this is truly only a strive for himself...

*sniff*
those words that kaworu said are beautifull
they can be used for real life

[Squirrel Ninja]

[quote=Nirvash]guess what ninja? gainax agrees i saw it recently on oav it explains all the lovings goin on. you described it almost perfectly except kaworu that one was intended to be real and between rei and auska when shinji was recreating as they called it his eve apeared as rei and not auska. plus auska died in the end.
whats funny is both shinji and gendo both got around didnt they?[/quote].

But Asuka doesn't die in the end, Shingi stops choking her once she puts her hand to his face. Actually I think his violence against her is a sign he actually had feelings for her. There were people, his father for example, who were much worse to him, and he didn't want to choke them, he just drifted along accepting what they wanted of him. The fact that he felt the need to kill Asuka shows how deeply she emotionally effected him. With that in mind I imagine Shingi sitting there and crying for a while and ultimately staying with Asuka. While she didn't appear to Shingi when gaint Rei approached him, we can assume Rei is her true form and the transformations are to comfrot the dieing. In Shingis case she stays as Rei as she approaches, but you may remember then transforms into Kaworu, which settles him down considerably. Assuming Rei controls who she transforms into, I don't think she would have given Asuka the satisfaction of comforting Shingi. Though as I said before, it is ultamatly Rei who comforts him after the 3rd impact.

To William: It wouldn't be hard for me to believe Shingi was sexually attracted to Rei as well, actualy at the very end of End of Eva, I think they did love each other even if not romantically. However, I don't think there was ever any love between Rei and Gendo. Rei was his tool, and Gendo was her master, and I think Rei respected Gendo and would follow his orders without question, and was even grateful twords him for saving his life, but I wouldn't say she loved him. Gendo did clearly care for Rei's wellbeing, at least physically, but actually now that I'm thinking about it, it's possible there was something there. I'll have to think about it more, but I think it is clear that in the end, Rei realized he was using him, and she finally disobeyed his orders. I agree with what you said about Asuka. Back to Kwarou are you suggesting they had a romantic loving relationship?

[William]

Yes they did.... And gendo did love rei, yet not as a romantic or sexual love, as a self kinda psychopathic love, a love for himself through her.
And Im sure with the kwoaru and shinji thing, yet shinji has a problem feeling sexual feelings, becuase of his traumatization, so emotional attraction and love, is the best thing he feels comfortable with, the thing he feels the most if anything.
And yes Shinji was of course attracted to rei, and rei and kwoaru were simalier, as he said himself. "Where the same, you and I"
And he saw something in her himself.
Gendo is obviously a soiciopath, and has a lack of empathy for everyone.
Gendo is a real stimulator for problems in the show, even if you can't connect it to him indefinately, alot of shinjis problems which start other problems, go back to him.

To explain it more rei was like his shining glory, like his self pride...so was all of his inventions and things...

[Squirrel Ninja]

That's true, directly or indirectly his father is the root of a lot of his problems, but is he responsible for them? It's back to the shows freuden physiological themes, do we blame our parents or ourselves. I think his father was terribly traumatizing to him, but it wouldn't be fair to call everything his fault. I also wouldn't go so far as to call him a sociopath, his character was alot like Shingi's except older, a person with an underdeveloped emotional system. He did love his wife and while I agree that his attachment to Rei was egotistical, he did in at least in some even unintentional way care for her wellbeing. What you say about Shinji and Kaworu isn't terribly far fetched, but if he didn't know how to express his feelings to Rei and Asuka theres no way he would have been able to have a romantic relationship with Kaworu, because now not only would he up against his own insecurities but also societal norms, which would have been a major roadblock for him. If he did indeed have romantic feelings for Kaworu I would further add that he is obviously bi-sexual not homo-sexual.
On a somewhat off topic note, I'm curious as to what other meanings you derived Kaworu's message, "Were the same you and I" to Rei.

[William]

Yet you see, I understand the thing about gendo, I said somethng to admusica once, for some reason I thought gendo was giving shinji some kind of tough love, was doing this purposely, to help him in life, he wanted him to become more like himself, and loved his son in a way...
Yet he is still somewhat of a sociopath, he has all the tendencies derived for one, he atleast has psychopathic tendencies, and he himself realizes this...
He is like shinji in many ways, and sometimes I wonder what his past was exactly.
And as for shinji being a bisexual, Im not so sure about that, I really don't think its right to really give him a sexual label....shinji reminds me alot of myself, sometimes I wonder if im really bisexual, or if I should even give myself a sexual label.
Kwoaru's love for shinji, is almost completely inhuman, him being an angel and all applies to this...
and with rei being the same as kwoaru, they are both derived from lilith, the only thing that is diffrent, is that kwoaru has a independant and free mind...

[Squirrel Ninja]

My intention of calling him bi-sexual was to avoid any labeling, but I'm not very familiar with the idea, so I may have done so intentionality. I meant that I think he was sexualy attracted to women, IE Rei and Asuka. I'd agree there love was very unusual, but it cheapens it somewhat to call it inhuman;it was very unique and wonderful though to be sure, it probably was the only thing that kept Shinji going at the end. The biggest sticking point I have with your last post is that I don't believe Rei didn't have a free thinking mind.

[William]

her mind was more controlled then kwoaru's..

And his love for him was inhuman in a way, it had a deeper emotion then a human type of love, Shinji was the only reason kwoaru decided not to go through with his plan...

its strange though, kwoaru acted like a jesus in the story, dying for the human race so it can continue, and this does go back to the bilibical stories.
The people in the bible did not understand why jesus let himself die...
Its very interesting how no one noticed the similarties between them...
The only thing that puts that off, is the part that kwoaru had fallen in love with a human.
this also has some similarites to haruko in flcl...